Has anyone ever used a BBQ Guru on a larger pit ?

[vabbq]

I have a Klose 20 X 42 with an offset firebox. I am wondering if any off you have added a BBQ Guru to a comparable smoker ? I have the 10 CFM Guru and wood like to know if this would work well with my pit, and what the best installation would be. If I need a new hole in the firebox (which I am hoping is not the case) it need to be through 1/2 " steel and I am not sure about that as well.

Any thoughts out there ? Any experience with this ?

[Grumpy Gator]

Hey VA,

Have you talked to Shotgun Fred at thebbqguru.com about it yet? I know they go to lots of cook-offs and have probably seen just about every possible set-up.

I'd give him a call. He's always happy to chat.

[KazQ]

I remember someone on the Bandera site using one with an offset pit.
You'll be best off emailing the company and asking for advice,me i would just get a charcoal basket and be done with it,you'll get 6-7 hour
cooks no problem,actually if your planing on getting longer burns or steadier temps with a Guru ain't gonna happen.
Now if it was me and i just had to install a Gugu the probe has to be under the charcoal,so you may also have to raise your wood grate an inch in your firebox,i'd just go thru the intakes after raising the grate.
This will also save you from asking "how do you patch up a 1" hole in a 1'2" firebox when you realise these gugus aren't all that! :wink:

[jshively]

Throw us some details about how this thing actually hooks up. Here is how I understand is a motor that attaches to another device and then that device has a temp probe coming into it that would sit in the main chamber. So when the temp hits a set point the device kicks the motor in just like a furnance.

Are you looking for where to mount the motor or where to mount everything because believe me with the amount of redneck ingenuity on this board a solution can be found.

One question I have is ash kickup or is the motor so small that it would not kick up ash.

[jshively]

Also, any experience welding or what are you comfortable with doing?

[KazQ]

vabbq is your fire going out? or are you having problems with the temperature?
Or uhhh, i don't understand why you would add a Guru in the first place.

[TexLaw]

va,

If you go through with the surgery on your pit, make sure you go slowly and remove metal with every turn of the bit. Otherwise, you'll temper and harden the steel and have a real bear of a time. Jshively's tips are also essential, but make sure you start with a bit sturdy enough to put a lot of pressure on.


TL

[vabbq]

KazQ - I just find I need to tinker with the fire so much to hold a steady temp. I thought this might make it easier to hold a steady temp sometimes without as much attention until I have more practice with this pit.

[jshively]

va,

If you go through with the surgery on your pit, make sure you go slowly and remove metal with every turn of the bit. Otherwise, you'll temper and harden the steel and have a real bear of a time. Jshively's tips are also essential, but make sure you start with a bit sturdy enough to put a lot of pressure on.


TL

Good point on the tips and make sure you have spares because you will break them. Heck I broke Dewalt bits trying to drill into landscape timbers. 30 dollar pieces of junk.

[KazQ]

Texlaw you really wanna see that hole in a firebox huh?
Hope he's not just having problems with his fire going out,cuz all he has to do is clean his ashpan out or lift his woodgrate.i mean he has a
1/2" properly built firebox,so shouldn't be having temperature fluctuations unless he just thinks he can cook for 20 hours,not gonna happen with all that steel and one load of charcoal.

[vabbq]

jshively - At least on the WSM, you cover all the bottom vent holes except one and the guru fan goes over that one. Then there is a pit probe and a meat probe. If the pit temp drops below the set point, it blows air into the fire until the temp is reached. I assume it would be something similiar on an offset firebox pit.

[jshively]

KazQ - I just find I need to tinker with the fire so much to hold a steady temp. I thought this might make it easier to hold a steady temp sometimes without as much attention until I have more practice with this pit.

I hate to be devil's advocate and please don't take offense to this because I mean it with the best of intentions but at some point if you want to learn the pit you will have to learn to use it without the guru and starting to tinker with the guru will only make it more difficult because you will adjust to the guru not the pit and will have to relearn.

Have you invested in the Maverick ET-73? It is a wireless thermometer and then you are not tied to the pit and when the temp drops below a set point it beeps and you can run over and check it out. I use my adnaseum just because I can do a million things and not worry about the pit.

[KazQ]

KazQ - I just find I need to tinker with the fire so much to hold a steady temp. I thought this might make it easier to hold a steady temp sometimes without as much attention until I have more practice with this pit.

:oops: my typing skills are showing again,seems by the time i answer
a question the poster answers before me.

[jshively]

Texlaw you really wanna see that hole in a firebox huh?
Hope he's not just having problems with his fire going out,cuz all he has to do is clean his ashpan out or lift his woodgrate.i mean he has a
1/2" properly built firebox,so shouldn't be having temperature fluctuations unless he just thinks he can cook for 20 hours,not gonna happen with all that steel and one load of charcoal.

Interesting question how much charcoal/wood are you using on the Klose. I have a 20x40 with 1/2 firebox and normally to get up to temp it takes one Weber charcoal chimmey and about 2 logs 20 minutes or so.

Walk us through a normal startup.

If you want advice on the guru just let me know and I won't prode but help you get the guru functioning but I think between the board you won't need the guru to keep constant.

[KazQ]

vabbq if your using wood i don't see how it will help,if your using charcoal
even without a charcoal basket you temperature should be rock steady
now the guru might help if it's windy outside.Well anyways go thru the vents first and see if it helps in your situation,and then drilling holes after
really finding out info about it from someone who's already attempted it.
Now i press the submit button and your all on another subject! watch.

[KazQ]

See!!!! :oops:

[jshively]

vabbq if your using wood i don't see how it will help,if your using charcoal
even without a charcoal basket you temperature should be rock steady
now the guru might help if it's windy outside.Well anyways go thru the vents first and see if it helps in your situation,and then drilling holes after
really finding out info about it from someone who's already attempted it.
Now i press the submit button and your all on another subject! watch.

Thread has not been hi-jacked yet. Wait till he gets helped them it will landslide.

[TexLaw]

Texlaw you really wanna see that hole in a firebox huh?


No, not really, but if he's going to start screwing with his pit, I'd rather he not screw up both the pit, a drill, and some body parts.


TL

[vabbq]

I have been starting with a small chimney of lump in a chimney. Dumping that in the firebox once it is going, then adding a couple split pieces of hickory or cherry with the firebox doors around half closed. Then either stirring up the fire or adding another log when the heat starts back down.

So far I have found that I need to be messing with it all the time. It is possible that my wood has been a bit wet. Perhaps I should be staring with more charcaol to have a better bed of coals, and maybe briquettes instead of lump ?

[vabbq]

Sorry - firebox vents half closed.

[jshively]

I have been starting with a small chimney of lump in a chimney. Dumping that in the firebox once it is going, then adding a couple split pieces of hickory or cherry with the firebox doors around half closed. Then either stirring up the fire or adding another log when the heat starts back down.

So far I have found that I need to be messing with it all the time. It is possible that my wood has been a bit wet. Perhaps I should be staring with more charcaol to have a better bed of coals, and maybe briquettes instead of lump ?

With the size of the pit you probably should have more going. Once it gets up to temp the 1/2 will really help keep it at temp but you have to get it there.

If you only have one chimmey what you might want to try is lighting the one chimmey getting it going really good. Put it in the firebox and fill a chimmey full of unlit and put that on top of the lit with a couple pieces of wood on top of the unlit. In about 10 minutes it will be going pretty good.

I mistyped my last message I normally use 2 lit charcoal chimmeys and then add wood but the way I described is basically just the same only with 2 lit chimmeys you don't have to wait for the unlit to get lit.

I keep a log going of how much starting fuel it took for different conditions that way I know if it is 20 degrees and cold I need to use more fuel to get it going than I would if it is 70 degrees and no wind.

[jshively]

Also, if it gets to hot have a metal bucket nearby take a fireplace shovel and pull some out or even a piece of wood out. Better to go hotter and cool it down than go to cold and try and get it back up because charcoal takes awhile to get going.

[vabbq]

jshively - interesting, I have been starting with about 1/3 of the charcoal you are using. Does a charcoal basket help also ? And are you just using briquettes ?

[KazQ]

Yup you'll be messing with an all wood fire vabbq over and over adding sticks constantly before the last addition starts coming down in temperature or you'll be adding lump to get the sticks burning again.
It's like this:Add 3/4 chimney of burning lump,wait. add 2-3 pieces of say15"x4" sticks,will start burning,wait...preheat 5-6 sticks on top of firebox,now the tricky part of knowing just before the fire starts cooling.add 2 preheated sticks and repeat,now the only Guru that will help you is if you have a friend by the name of guru.Get yourself a charcoal basket and use the minion method with charcoal and chunks of wood if you like after you get tired of cooking with the wood,say at the middle of a brisket cook.

[jshively]

jshively - interesting, I have been starting with about 1/3 of the charcoal you are using. Does a charcoal basket help also ? And are you just using briquettes ?

From the designs I have seen they really don't look real wood friendly. I think it would be something that would be worthwhile when you have reached the point where smoke is no longer penentrating the meat(believe in another thread it was like 140 degree internal for brisket). Really not a big hassle for me since I do most of my cooking during the day and maybe every couple of hours I have to run out and put more fuel on. If I were to do more overnight cooks probably do it then but I am still young so not worried about lost sleep. Plus wireless thermometers are a life saver.

I use just regular Kingsford briquettes I get from Sam's Club. The only problem is ash is a pain but I have a metal bucket that sits near the pit and I just shovel the ash when it gets to bad into the bucket. Ok most of the I get lazy and just shovel it onto the pavement and expect the wind to carry it away.

[jshively]

Yup you'll be messing with an all wood fire vabbq over and over adding sticks constantly before the last addition starts coming down in temperature or you'll be adding lump to get the sticks burning again.
It's like this:Add 3/4 chimney of burning lump,wait. add 2-3 pieces of say15"x4" sticks,will start burning,wait...preheat 5-6 sticks on top of firebox,now the tricky part of knowing just before the fire starts cooling.add 2 preheated sticks and repeat,now the only Guru that will help you is if you have a friend by the name of guru.Get yourself a charcoal basket and use the minion method with chunks of wood if you like after you get tired of cooking with the wood,say at the middle of a brisket cook.

Kaz:

You seem to know about the charcoal basket and I have a design question about them. Does it basically work like a charcoal chimmey where it burns up and burns through a layer as it goes and that heats? I guess with the vents choked down it would not cause the charcoal to burn as quick as it would if were outside.

[KazQ]

Ok the basket i have is a Klose with the double partitions,basicaly you load up the basket not much past the top of the dividers,then you get a 1/2 chimney or a bit less lit nicely burning and you dump that in the corner farthest away from the firebox intakes and the charcoal will burn in an sssssssss around the basket.

[vabbq]

jshively - once you have it going, do you just use wood for the rest of the cook, or are you also using more charcoal throughout the cook ?

[jshively]

Ok the basket i have is a Klose with the double partitions,basicaly you load up the basket not much past the top of the dividers,then you get a 1/2 chimney or a bit less lit nicely burning and you dump that in the corner farthest away from the firebox intakes and the charcoal will burn in an sssssssss around the basket.

Got it just found it on his website. Does not seem that it would be that hard to make at home.

When you get to the point where you are using it do you just dump what is in your firebox or load the charcoal basket up with that?

If I get bored this weekend I may try making one.

[KazQ]

Works for between 6-7 hours with well packed lump on account well packed lump has less air around it .I like using all wood for ribs,no problems playing with sticks,but if i'm cooking say a 12 hour or more brisket,i use wood then cranck out the 60 pound charcoal basket and finish the cook.

[jshively]

jshively - once you have it going, do you just use wood for the rest of the cook, or are you also using more charcoal throughout the cook ?

I will use wood till about halfway through and then conserve the wood and go to charcoal.

Basically all I am using the charcoal for is an ignitor for the wood. I just found one charcoal chimmey spread to thin on the firebox and it was not catching the wood on fire as quick as I would like.

Of course now I have a propane torch so I may just light the wood with that after putting 1 charcoal chimmey in.

Good point also about preheating the wood that helps out drastically.

[jshively]

Works for between 6-7 hours with well packed lump on account well packed lump has less air around it .I like using all wood for ribs,no problems playing with sticks,but if i'm cooking say a 12 hour or more brisket,i use wood then cranck out the 60 pound charcoal basket and finish the cook.

How much charcoal does it take to fill?

[KazQ]

Well if i have some good burning wood i'll throw that into the loaded charcoal basket,if you wanna copy that basket your going to need 60
pounds of steel,mine cost me 96$ to buy 16 months ago,now they're maybe 30% more,don't think you'll save much after you buy all that steel.

[KazQ]

You guys type too fast!

[KazQ]

I would be guessing about 5-6 pounds of lump.

[jshively]

You guys type too fast!

All I do all day long is type so kindof got good at it.

Thanks for the info I will check this out. Have a couple buddies who are good with steel so be enlisted their help.

[jshively]

I would be guessing about 5-6 pounds of lump.

Wow that is way less than I thought. I was expecting like 20 or so lbs.

Do you ever notice if the fire chokes out since the walls are all solid?

I was thinking about doing it with expanded metal for the sides and then to create the dividers using alum flashing that would come about 3/4 of the way into the basket.

[KazQ]

Know any guys named Guru? :lol: i could use some help when i'm cookin brisket and realise i have no lump.
I'ts not that i'm a slow typer i figure it's on account you guy's are asking questions and i have to makeup :oops: i mean answer them. :lol:

[KazQ]

I would be guessing about 5-6 pounds of lump.

Wow that is way less than I thought. I was expecting like 20 or so lbs.

Do you ever notice if the fire chokes out since the walls are all solid?



Well maybe a bit more,say7 pounds,i'v never really thought about it i guess,just dump and lite,yeah about 7 pounds would be about right of lump hardwood charcoal,Natures Own is the brand.Never had the fire choke out,now your talking about charcoal in the charcoal basket right?
Cuz my amature days of all wood cooking,well let's just say,typical mistakes that i'm sure everyone made.

[vabbq]

Should I get a basket for my firebox or just dump the coals in. If you think a firebox would help, where from ?

[KazQ]

Well don't know about shipping costs to VA,i'm sure you could lay charcoal in your firebox in a way that would work.

[jshively]

Should I get a basket for my firebox or just dump the coals in. If you think a firebox would help, where from ?

I have never used one but will probably make one just out of curiosity.

Go ahead and dump the coals on in. The firebox loves it.

Really the only time like Kaz pointed out that a basket would be beneficial would be if you were doing like a brisket or pork butt and you are done using wood and would switch to charcoal only or some people who have propane assist go ahead and turn it on.

Realize there is a point in which the meat will not soak up anymore smoke flavor.

[jshively]

vabbq:

Where you located at in VA? I will probably end up in Newport News for a couple days here soon.

[vabbq]

I am a few hours away in Central Virginia.

[KazQ]

[quote=vabbq]
Really the only time like Kaz pointed out that a basket would be beneficial would be if you were doing like a brisket or pork butt and you are done using wood and would switch to charcoal only or some people who have propane assist go ahead and turn it on.

Realize there is a point in which the meat will not soak up anymore smoke flavor.


You can cook say ribs the whole time with just charcoal also,load up the basket,add say small pieces of apple wood in between charcoal, light and walk away.now it's not the same flavor as an all proper wood cooking no matter what,,,,,well they know who they are tell you,after you have some proper Q with all wood there's no going back.

[TexLaw]

I have a log lighter, so I start my fire a little differently. I put about a chimney and a half's worth in an oblong pile (stick shaped) in the firebox and hit it with the log lighter for a few minutes. Then, I put a stick on top of the pile and leave it alone. After about 30 minutes or so, my temp usually is where I want it. Sometimes, I'll go ahead and toss another stick on, then, so I can make sure I get some good coals. If I do that, I often have to open my firebox door until the flames die down. At that point, I can usually close the firebox door and close the vents some and let the coals do their thing for a while. After that, it's all wood until the meat goes in the foil. I usually need to check on it about every 30-45 minutes. The idea is to have the coals provide your heat, and the wood replaces the coals. If you stagger it right, you get an equilibrium and a fairly constant temperature. Learning to stagger it like that, though, comes only with time in the saddle. The smoke, and the smoke flavor, just tend to follow along.

If you don't have a log lighter, you can do like Jshively said and toss in a lit chimney's worth of coals, followed by unlit coals and a stick. That will work just as well. I like using the log lighter because the propane heat helps bring the pit up to temp (and it's a lot cheaper than wood or charcoal). The log lighter also bails me out when I leave the fire for too long.

If you really want to get crazy, you can "pre-burn" a bunch of wood down to coals, shovel them into the firebox, and then adjust your intake vents. Coals can survive for a long time on a little oxygen. Every now and then, you can shovel some more coals in. The downside to all that is that it takes a lot of wood to make those coals, and it's generally a giant PITA for what you get out of it. The upside is that you will eliminate temperature spikes and creosote, and others say you will eliminate some other nasty stuff that you shouldn't eat.

Kaz is right. The only way to get true BBQ is with wood, and the only way to cook with wood is to give it some attention. It's just that simple. There is no magic. It is art. You cannot automate it. With experience, it gets easier. Shortcuts only lead to lower quality (i.e., crappy art).

Whew! Is it beer time?


TL

[redneck cooker]

Helll Yeaaa!!!!!!!! Beer thirty!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol:

[jshively]

[quote="TexLaw"

If you really want to get crazy, you can "pre-burn" a bunch of wood down to coals, shovel them into the firebox, and then adjust your intake vents. Coals can survive for a long time on a little oxygen. Every now and then, you can shovel some more coals in. The downside to all that is that it takes a lot of wood to make those coals, and it's generally a giant PITA for what you get out of it. The upside is that you will eliminate temperature spikes and creosote, and others say you will eliminate some other nasty stuff that you shouldn't eat.
[/quote]

I tried preburning once and seriously it is a PITA not only timing everything but well it took way to much time away from my drinking and caused me to focus and I don't like to focus.

[jshively]

VA:

You tried screwing around with the Klose yet curious how it worked out for you.

[Woodman]

If you don't want to cook with wood, buy a water smoker like a WSM or a pellet deal like a Traeger, or something akin to Mac's pit. Wood fire yields the best results in my opinion, but it requires attention. I believe that you can taste that attention in the BBQ. Log pits like Klose, Gator, Bates andd the like were meant to burn logs! Make the fire your friend! Woody

[vabbq]

jshively:

I think I am going to give up on that idea and just practice more on the Klose.

[jshively]

jshively:

I think I am going to give up on that idea and just practice more on the Klose.

That is the best way to do it.

I cooked this weekend and really I should have cut down on the amount of fuel I was using drastically because it was so warm out. I probably should have used just one charcoal chimmey full and then one log. I tried 2 charcoal chimmey and 1 log and the temp was always running way to hot. If the temp starts to drop just run out and flip the log.

[TexLaw]

jshively:

I think I am going to give up on that idea and just practice more on the Klose.

In the end, you'll enjoy it so much more. It's the difference between watching a Ferrari and driving one.


TL

[Mac]

TexLaw,

Real good analogy! :D