Am I Crazy or Just Dumb. . .

[SmokinCA]

Okay, I know I'm opening myself up here to ridicule but here goes (I have thick skin). :lol:

First some background. . . I currently live in a major metropoltian area (San Francisco Bay Area). Due to changes within the next few months at my current job, my family and I are very seriously considering relocating to a small mountain community. My difficulty with this is finding a business that will be fun and pay the bills. I have been running all of the day-to-day operations at my current company for the past 5 years and am confident in my business management skills.

One of the businesses that is lacking in this community (and many mountain communities) is good food. Yes there are plenty of restaraunts but most either 1) serve sit down, full dinner or 2) the food is plain or just bad. Many restauraunts in these type of communities turn hands every few years based mainly on the fact (I'm assuming) that the food is lousy. Furthermore, there really isn't a place to get good, quickly prepared food or a good sandwich at lunch.

Okay, here is the dumb/crazy part (you saw this coming by now). . . I have a total of 2 months smoking experience. . .that's right 2 months. That said, the BBQ I have done is better then just about anything you can get around here in a restauraunt (save 1 or 2 dedicated BBQ houses). Remember, this is California and good/real BBQ is hard to find. Furthermore, there is nowhere serving BBQ in the community I am thinking of relocating to.

My thought would be to open a small, self-service type of place with a limited but good menu. The main attraction would be smoked foods that would have a limited number of side dishes. Keep it simple. This would not be a sit-down, full service restauraunt but would have a small number of tables and a patio.

So, am I off my rocker? I don't pretend to have any real BBQ skills yet but I am a quick study and follow a recepie pretty well. On a small scale I can produce a good product; though, I've never cooked more then a few butts and slabs at once. Oh yeah, I don't have any real restauraunt experience either. . .

So, what would I be getting myself into? Am I setting myself up for failure? What is the reality of cooking smoked foods day-in and day-out? Is the ability to produce a good, consistent product with my very limited smoking experience a long shot? Anyone have an educational resource they can point me to?

Thanks for reading this far. . .

Thanks in advance,
Lance

BTW, my wife is leaning strongly on the dumb side of the fence. . . but she just doesn't get it :P

[PhotoKirk]

I would imagine that there is no shortage of sausage smokers in the San Francisco area.

[Buckeye]

:shock: :shock: OUCH!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[SmokinCA]

Man. . . side tracked before we even got started. . . :P

[Texana]

Come on guys ... your supposed to wait for at least 5 or 6 posts to jump the tracks ...

Lance, my apologies for some of these goofballs.

Let me suggest before you get tons of useless info, to call Bill Cannon when you get a minute. He owns this website and forum, and can share a lot of information verbally quicker than we can tell you. He has personal knowledge of a person that did the very thing you did and is doing very well. Best you talk to him.

[camocooker]

I'll try to get back on track,
It's not the type of food that your serving that's difficult. It's the restaurant biz in general that is. Be prepared to work 70 to 90 hours a week and have everyone ( venders and employees) take advantage of your inexperience at every turn. The restaurant business can be very rewarding ( not so much money wise), but there are a lot of pitfalls. Find a trusted friend that has experience to work up a business plan or pay a consultant, this will be money well spent. Mnay locations require a ten year lease, what will you do if things don't go as planned in the first year. Have a plan and a backup plan and another plan. I do not mean to discourage you. DO YER HOMEWORK.
Good Luck

all just my opinion... and many years restaurant experience

[Buckeye]

Smokin.....in a nutshell......I'd jus say yer VERY ADVENTUROUS. :wink:
I woodn't call ya dumb or crazy...cuz probalee like most of us...we'd like ta do tha same.......look at those (me inkluded) who r wunt'n to or starting catering businesses. Same principle. Woodn't hurt ta beef up yer skills a yeer or two to feel confident enuff ta handle tha trials that may try ta set ya back. If this is jus sumthin in passin' or a phase...I'd rule against it...I think u need ta have a passion for it in order for it ta be sucksessful. Wish ya luck if ya try it. Yer gunna need yer wife's support on this too. :wink:

[Fire-it-Up]

Sounds like a good idea to me, with the lack of good BBQ places.

I had a friend of mine start a small BBQ shop in Texas (not fancy), only made briskit, chicken, and a few other easy things to make. He would also smoke just about anything you brought to him. You could walk or drive up and get lunch or dinner, he was only open until 7:00pm. He would get there at about 6:00am to get started. The lunch croud was the money maker

[TAR RIVER RAT]

Amen Bro Buckeye.
You have got to have wifes support, and I would put that #1.
my 1cents.
Tar

[jshively]

Actually researching something like this right now so I have pretty fresh information.

The first thing goto the bookstore and buy every book you can think of on restaurant managment and read. Do you have firsthand restaurant knowledge especially with ordering and food safety laws? If not find someone.

Actually also check out the local colleges for classes on restaurant managment.

Another good resources is SOAR. It is basically retired people who will help you form business ideas and shape them. They pair you up with someone who is in the field that interests you and they are a wonderful resource.

Realize you are cooking for a vast majority and it is way different than what you are use to cooking at home. You may like spicier rubs but if your customers don't well that will be a huge problem. Not a bad idea to give out samples to anyone you know and have them comment. Go for what the majority of the people perfer. Especially try and focus your samples around the area you are looking at since these will be a majority of your major customers.

The most important thing is a majority of all restaurants fail simply because of undercapalization so whatever you think you need definately multiply it by 40% and that is how much you will need. It will take you awhile to get established and get a good customer base so you will need the loan to definately pay bills.

One thing I am currently doing is going into restaurants of all kinds and looking around seeing what seems to be working for them. Steal ideas from everyone.

Also, be flexible you may have to change a couple things to satisfy the vast majority. I thought about a cafeteria style setting that you see in a lot of restaurants but noticed not a lot do that and the ones that have failed. No clue why but if people don't like it they will go somewhere else eventhough it maybe the best way in your mind.

It is a very cutthroat business also and lots of competition but keep your nose to the grindstone and definately realize the customer is always right no matter what you think. One good phrase to get use to is:
"How can I make this better or right for you".

[TexLaw]

Lance,

Here are a few thoughts everyone gave jshively about a month ago.

http://www.texasbbqrub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2141

It sounds like he's been checking it out pretty well, so I'd listen to him.

Also, you need to ask the following questions and get good answers: Why are there no restaurants like you are thinking about in the area? Has no one thought of it, or could no one make it work? Your idea sounds great to me, but I have no idea about where you are thinking of starting this up.

You also need to know where you are going to get the wood you need and think about that cost. What are people around there willing to pay for semi-self-service BBQ? Can you cover your costs?


TL

[SmokinCA]

Thanks everyone. You all are giving me a lot to think about.

Here are a few answers/comments to questions that have come up:

-I don'tthink anyone has opened a BBQ in the town because true BBQ really isn't that widely available. For the most part (my experience) California BBQ is boiled ribs drenched in sauce. I'll need to do more investivgation into this specific town though.

-The town I'm looking at is a small mountain/seasonal resort community. The full-time population is 4000-4500 people with a sesonal "swell" of up to 20K. Mainly winter (skiing) and summer vacationers.

-Great point about my taste may not be everyone's taste. I like a spicy BBQ but most probably don't.

-All. . . great points about research and finding someone that knows the business. I may have a few resources that can help.

-One of my big questions is can a small resort-type town support a business like this? Don't really know. . .

Keep the feedback coming!

Thanks,
Lance

[jshively]

Couple more things that TL made me think about is how are you going to do the cooking?

Currently I am talking to insurance about what I am looking at if I were to use an unattended system such as a Trager with modifications that if the temp drops below a set point it sends me a text message. An example would be if wood get jammed in it. This would allow me to do overnight cooks and then the meat would be transferred to hot pans to sit before serving and if a problem occurs I can run over and fix it. Plus everything would be web based cameras and monitors so I can connect to the kitchen and view everything realtime.

The other option would be actually cooking the meat yourself each morning and this with you also have to check to make sure that local fire code laws allow this to happen especially if you are putting the pit outside and you run into more problems with crappy weather. The drawback is you might not get the desired result because you are forced to cook the meat quicker.

Check your health code also because another idea I am seeing on is actually cooking one day ahead. So I come in on Monday and start cooking the food for Tuesday and the food that was cooked on Sunday is Monday's food. Store everything according to health code and you should not run into any problems at all. Plus if you have a bad cook more than likely you have fallback or if you run out at night you should have the next day's ready so you could use that. Items like pork butt and brisket reheat very well. Ribs and chicken don't but they are quick cook items so you could do this first thing in the morning and have it ready in time for service.

Have you thought about help? Believe me you will need someone else you can trust to act as the right hand man and knows how to do everything from the cooking, ordering, customer relations, etc. At some point you will get sick or need a vacation and definately need someone you can trust.

A lot of these older restaurants you see with built-in pits and everything probably got grandfathered in and the new laws would not allow that to really happen so you will have to get creative.

[jshively]

Thanks everyone. You all are giving me a lot to think about.

Here are a few answers/comments to questions that have come up:

-I don'tthink anyone has opened a BBQ in the town because true BBQ really isn't that widely available. For the most part (my experience) California BBQ is boiled ribs drenched in sauce. I'll need to do more investivgation into this specific town though.

-The town I'm looking at is a small mountain/seasonal resort community. The full-time population is 4000-4500 people with a sesonal "swell" of up to 20K. Mainly winter (skiing) and summer vacationers.

-Great point about my taste may not be everyone's taste. I like a spicy BBQ but most probably don't.

-All. . . great points about research and finding someone that knows the business. I may have a few resources that can help.

-One of my big questions is can a small resort-type town support a business like this? Don't really know. . .

Keep the feedback coming!

Thanks,
Lance

I can help you even more with this. The company I work for owns a restaurant that is on a lake. Similiar situation where there is a busy season and then there is not.

Honestly, it is very difficult because you have to dominate during the busy season and conserve during the slow season. If you have a crappy busy season you will definately feel a pinch in slow season. Our restaurant will run 7 days a week breakfast-dinner-bar during lake season but go to a 4 night a week only schedule because we could run 7 lunches/night but we would actually lose money. So instead it is easier to stay open Thu-Sun night only and a lot of those sales are bar not food.

Also, you might want to add a breakfast during the fast season to help pick up some extra cash to carry. People always need to eat and just offer basic eggs/omlettes/toast/etc. which gets them up and moving quickly and skiing.

With being a ski town people are going to want to eat quick during the day and you could slow the pace down at night. During the summer the restaurant will run 3 menus. A breakfast menu which is basic. Lunch menu which is basically fried quick food, and a relaxed sitdown dinner menu. We vary those also depending on the weather.

How much other competiton would you have? Are they established restaurants? If so the locals will recommend those to visitors so you have to get a good local following and you definately get referrals. A lot of people will ask someone local at the hotel/resort/store about a good restaurant when they are in another town.

Also, that raises another point. I am assuming since it is a ski town lot of resorts? Do those resorts offer restaurants? That may hurt also because people after a long day of skiing would rather walk downstairs and eat a subpar meal as opposed to traveling to get a good meal.

Not trying to be negative just spreading my experience.

[jshively]

Look into a feasbility study also. That will tell you if the reason a bbq restaurant has not been succesful is because local bbq sucks or people don't like it in general. Be like trying to take Italian food to Mexico probably not going to be a lot of people who would eat it.

Will set you back a couple grand but that beats 100k+ of debt to find out people don't like bbq there.

[Buckeye]

Hey JS......I went ta SOAR bout 2 yeers ago with a few ideers I had (nuthin fancee or elaberit) an that ol' @#$%^&!@#$%%^&*#@$%#@!!! crucified me, an my ideers! :evil: He wuz not at all helpful in any respeckt. Tha whole 1/2 our I wuz in there wuz nuthin but negative....why this won't werk, why that's not gunna happen. (they were not bad ideers) He didn't offer any advice az ta any alternative ideers. He wuz purdee much "short" with me.......all that....plust he wuz 20 minuts late fer tha appt.! :o....Maybe if I told him I had sum capital, he wooda been more helpful....but since I told him I had no start-up money...he probalee felt I wuz a lost cause. (well, that ain't too far wrong) Shooda gave him a few Viagra az a bribe......that's probalee why he wuz so awnry...ol coot! :evil:

[Woodman]

Lance,

Here are a few thoughts everyone gave jshively about a month ago.

http://www.texasbbqrub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2141

It sounds like he's been checking it out pretty well, so I'd listen to him.

Also, you need to ask the following questions and get good answers: Why are there no restaurants like you are thinking about in the area? Has no one thought of it, or could no one make it work? Your idea sounds great to me, but I have no idea about where you are thinking of starting this up.

You also need to know where you are going to get the wood you need and think about that cost. What are people around there willing to pay for semi-self-service BBQ? Can you cover your costs?


TL

I don't think there is anybody having trouble getting "wood" in northern Ca either! Too much "wood" if ya ask me!

Smokin Ca, you may want to try catering to determine if there is a market. Then you can keep your day job and establish a clientele. If you get a big tourist "swell" that could present an opportunity for "vending" sandwhiches and the like. Just a thought! "Wood" man

[jshively]

Lance,

Here are a few thoughts everyone gave jshively about a month ago.

http://www.texasbbqrub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2141

It sounds like he's been checking it out pretty well, so I'd listen to him.

Also, you need to ask the following questions and get good answers: Why are there no restaurants like you are thinking about in the area? Has no one thought of it, or could no one make it work? Your idea sounds great to me, but I have no idea about where you are thinking of starting this up.

You also need to know where you are going to get the wood you need and think about that cost. What are people around there willing to pay for semi-self-service BBQ? Can you cover your costs?


TL

I don't think there is anybody having trouble getting "wood" in northern Ca either! Too much "wood" if ya ask me!

Smokin Ca, you may want to try catering to determine if there is a market. Then you can keep your day job and establish a clientele. If you get a big tourist "swell" that could present an opportunity for "vending" sandwhiches and the like. Just a thought! "Wood" man

Good idea on the vending idea. Get a simple trailer mounted pit and head to heavy areas and just set up shop(check to make sure you are not tresspassing or elsewise doing anything illegal).

There is a guy who sets a hot dog stand up outside the bars and he makes a killing on Friday and Saturday night. Probably enough that he does not have to work. Been meaning to go talk to him also.

[SmokinCA]

jshively. . . Thanks for all the great info and things to think about. Regarding indoor commercial smokers. You indicated that built-ins are not legal anymore. Did I read this right? Is this the case in all states? There is a local BBQ that has a built-in pit but he has been there for awhile.

The problem with catering and "dipping my toes" is that my current business will be winding down over the next 3-6 months and I am looking at relocating all-together. I'll need to be either in-process or up and running with a new business in order to actually move.


Anyway, lots to think about and research. . . .

[jshively]

jshively. . . Thanks for all the great info and things to think about. Regarding indoor commercial smokers. You indicated that built-ins are not legal anymore. Did I read this right? Is this the case in all states? There is a local BBQ that has a built-in pit but he has been there for awhile.

The problem with catering and "dipping my toes" is that my current business will be winding down over the next 3-6 months and I am looking at relocating all-together. I'll need to be either in-process or up and running with a new business in order to actually move.


Anyway, lots to think about and research. . . .

I should clarify that comment. If you watch some of these BBQ shows they will show these restaurants that the pit is actually in a wall. That is really difficult to get done anymore especially if you were going to do unattended cooks.

A local Italian restaurant opened up here near my house and they have a wood fire that they use for cooking pizzas and stuff like that. The reason they were able to get it approved is because it is actually built into a wall that specifically designed for it and the fire has to be attended at all times. So you could find a loophole that allows it.

As far as indoor commercial smokers you should not have a problem at all. Around here it is legal as long as it has a fire suppression system and the smoke is piped outside the building. There is stipulations of course on the piping and all that. Basically it is looked at as a large oven. Just check with the local zoning laws, health inspectors, etc. Actually a really good source would be a restaurant supply store because they have probably seen it all or now it all. Especially since they will definately be wanting your business they should bend over backwards to help you.

Another idea is actually find some bbq joints a couple hours away and go check them out and see how their operations run. A lot of true restaurant owners have no problems showing you around or talking about it.

I find myself asking to be seated near the hostess station and kitchen. I like to see how the operation runs from the 2 key points.

Hostess:
How do they handle greeting the clients.
How do they handle seating people.
What do they do when someone is leaving.
What is communication like between waitresses and the hostess.

Kitchen:
How is the communication between the waitstaff and the kitchen.
How is the kitchen laid out.
Notice things like fire supression systems, ovens, what materials are they using.
How do they keep it sanitary because that is a big thing with health dept.
How are dishes done.
Where is the fridges in reference to the assembly line.
What tasks are they running in the kitchen(cutting veggies).

Basically what you are looking at is for the entire experience. From when the client walk in the door, seated, drinks, food ordered, kitchen handles the order, delivered, exit and especially during busy times.

Anybody can cook but it takes talen to take that food prepare it promptly and deliver it and ensure that everything is essential.

I knew a couple buddies of mine who actually use to run restaurants and they would spend the entire busy lunch hour busing tables, checking up on customers to make sure they are happy, filling water, doing dishes, prepping food. Leave the ego at the door is what the one said every morning.

[Big Rob]

So much reading, my eyes hurt. Can't we just draw some pictures?

Photokirk you had me rolling with your first response. :lol:

[gatorpit]

That was a good one. Can't go wrong with starting a BBQ business. Got many friends that are very successful in it. I am starting one myself this year. Making my plans on what, who, where, when, and of course that ole thing also a factor HOW MUCH is this gonna cost to get rolling. I have pretty much got it all down and will be ready to go in a couple months.

It is tough work. Long hours and pretty much 7 days a week. Hell, I do that now, what I am talking about.

[Buckeye]

Ritch...got a name yet?...heers one The Gator Pit 8) HA!
Talk about originalitee! :shock: :lol: :lol:
Put sum of yer pits on tha menu too.....ok...I'm bein silly.....86 that thaut. :oops:

[jshively]

That was a good one. Can't go wrong with starting a BBQ business. Got many friends that are very successful in it. I am starting one myself this year. Making my plans on what, who, where, when, and of course that ole thing also a factor HOW MUCH is this gonna cost to get rolling. I have pretty much got it all down and will be ready to go in a couple months.

It is tough work. Long hours and pretty much 7 days a week. Hell, I do that now, what I am talking about.

Congrats Ritch!!! Have to share some horror stories on startups at Qfest.

I am actually looking forward to the long hours just want to make sure I have all my ducks in a row. MMm...duck.

[AthensAg]

You are crazy.... I welcome to the club

[camocooker]

Hey Ritch,
Now that Houston banned "smoking" in all restaurants,
How will you cook your BBQ?

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

[Flap Daddy]

He'll have to do it in the bar area. You can still smoke there!!

[gatorpit]

Camouflage the pit so no one knows it is even there.

[jshively]

He'll have to do it in the bar area. You can still smoke there!!

You guys went to no smoking also. A lot of cities around here have even banned it in bars.

[Flap Daddy]

I'm sure that will be next.....

[Woodman]

We've banned Texans up here!

[Flap Daddy]

That is impossible.....you wouldn't catch any of us up there anyway :D

[jshively]

I'm sure that will be next.....

Sad sad sight of affairs. You can go to a car get plowed drunk, drive home, but you can't smoke. Seriously drinking and smoking go together like hotdog and baseball.

[PhotoKirk]

Welcome to the nanny state. Next will be taxes on "junk" foods to try to make people eat healtier. :roll:

[jshively]

Welcome to the nanny state. Next will be taxes on "junk" foods to try to make people eat healtier. :roll:

Believe it or not they have talked about stuff like that.

[Paul Taylor]

Why does that not suprise me? Just our typical all knowing, all caring govt. wanting to tell us what is best for us Be it city, county(Parish),state, or federal.

Paul Taylor

[jshively]

Why does that not suprise me? Just our typical all knowing, all caring govt. wanting to tell us what is best for us Be it city, county(Parish),state, or federal.

Paul Taylor

The no smoking in restaurant thing actually bugs the crap out of me. I only smoke when I drink and past that actually hate the smell but simply put it should be a restaurant's decision not a mandate.

People up here were whining about smoking so the restaurants had to comply with this law that said the smoking and non-smoking sections have to be seperated by a door that remains closed unless someone is coming through. A lot of restaurants could not afford to make the change and ended up having to go all non-smoking but lost a lot of sales because their bar was not getting the business anymore. Some restaurants put huge chunk of change to make it complaint.

If your restaurant wants to be all smoking so be it. It should be the consumer decision whether they wish to dine their or not. Not a consumer whining and forcing the politicians to step in.