Smoke vs Meat

[Texana]

I was asked on another thread about my opinion on how much smoke meat will take. Or something close to that, so here is my belated reply.

I honestly have no clue.

I can tell you what I have read and what I have been told. Somethere between 140 and 160 degrees.

Listen the long and short of it is .... this can be debated forever .... and has been. But the truth is most people believe what they want to believe. This question is about as loaded as fat up or fat down on cooking brisket.

In my opinion a lot of it depends on the wood you use, the age of the wood, and how long you cook it in the smoke. Low and slow or hot and fast the results will vary with every cook. Meat can be oversmoked. If you do this you can taste it and it is not pleasant. Meat can be undersmoked. If this happens you might not even notice. But meat that is cooked and smoked just enough to taste it is ... well awesome comes to mind.

You can read about this all day long but until you burn up a few briskets or chickens your not going to know what works for you. Thats pretty much what I have done. I can tell you I love mesquite smoked brisket. Heavy mesquite is great for me. I can also tell you most people do not like it and judges seem to dislike it as well. Well I can tell you everyone is wrong and I am right. Fact is I cook what I like for me and that is all that matters ... Or is it.

I throw that theory clean off the bus when I am cooking for judges. I just want to cook what they like so I can win. As Redneck says ... Show me the money ... everything else is crap.

I probably didn't tell anyone here anything new, but I wanted to answer what I was asked. This is not a matter of keeping secrets. I will gladly tell you secrets if I have any and in the end nobody listens. And you know what thats ok. Each and everyone of you have to find you own way. All we as cooks and competitors can do is point you in the right direction. What you do with that info is up to.

Let me put it one more way. I just spent $500 for a one day cooking class from 2 very respectable winning cooks. Was it worth it ... yes. Did I learn some things ... yes. Can I share any of them with you ... yes. Will it make you a better or winning cook ... I have no idea. But let me tell each of you what the winning cooks told me. If you have something that works for you ... DO IT ... do not throw everything out and start over just to copy them. Also feel free to explore your ideas ... you might just have the next big secret and not even know it.

Maybe some day I will share with everyone what Gordo taught me about chicken .... but I will save that for another post.

[Paymaster]

HEY! Start a new thead about Gordo's Chicken.(probably an inside joke or sumthin,I know) I want to know and I want to learn. Thats half the reason I join the great place, to learn.The other half , well, y'all are fun to hang out on here with. :)

[Bull]

So when does the new post start about the Chicken?:D

[Grumpy Gator]

No real secret what Gordo taught Texana about the Chicken...

Just told him it cooks better on the pit than it does in the cooler... :roflmaoha0:

Yeah, yeah, yeah... I know this is like :deadhorse:, but I never get tired of it.

[HoosierTrooper]

<sitting at my desk tapping my fingers imapatiently wanting to ask a few questions and continue the discussion but decides it would be a waste of time>

[Texana]

<sitting at my desk tapping my fingers imapatiently wanting to ask a few questions and continue the discussion but decides it would be a waste of time>

Go ahead and ask ... it's what we are here for ... and we will do the best we can ...

[HoosierTrooper]

I thought the question had been settled and no further discussion was allowed. This is getting confusing. I'm glad it's Friday, I need some time to rest up and figure this out.

[Texana]

I thought the question had been settled and no further discussion was allowed. This is getting confusing. I'm glad it's Friday, I need some time to rest up and figure this out.

See thats where I think your just being a little obstinate ... and I thought you were smarter than that ...

A thread was closed. No big deal.

Obviously there is still need for discussion. I started this tread to answer the questions I thought I was asked and left it open for discussion. So if you want to discuss it, ask a question, curios about something now is the time to speak up.

Or ...

Feel free to start a new thread ask what you want to ask or voice your opinion and lets see where it goes .... your call.

[HoosierTrooper]

PM sent.

[redneck cooker]

:popcorn:Let debate begin...

[UpTop]

Well since I'm feeling fairly chatty this morning I'd like to say that I think the meat will continue to get flavor on the smoker even after the 140 degree mark and that since I'm no judge and I've yet to cook in a comp the smoke ring isn't all that important to me. I just wanna eat!

[Texana]

Well since I'm feeling fairly chatty this morning I'd like to say that I think the meat will continue to get flavor on the smoker even after the 140 degree mark and that since I'm no judge and I've yet to cook in a comp the smoke ring isn't all that important to me. I just wanna eat!

You could be correct. I am no scientist by any means. But I can tell you this ... you can get to much smoke on/in the meat ... and since most of us wrap around the 140 to 160 mark the smoke stops doing its thing ...

So maybe it is just in the wording ... How much smoke will meat take and for how long .... Doesn't really matter because we choose to stop the effect by foiling ... and if you dont foil and your food tastes good ... well guess what your right also ....

Everyone is a winner ...

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner .....

[redneck cooker]

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner .....


What time do we meet for you to buy us lunch then? :shock::roflmaoha0:unless you can "pry" some money out of Ritches hands...:shock::dis:

[UpTop]

Why do most people foil? To prevent meat from getting over smoked? To ensure the meat stays moist? To speed up the cooking process?
All of the above?
I just make sure I don't use too much wood to begin with to prevent the over smoked bitter taste. Oh yeah, and I always leave the exhaust/top vent completely open.

[redneck cooker]

As a comp cooker I foil or several reasons...1) it does speed up the cooking process and 2) IMHO it keeps all the juices confined against the meat so when it is done, and cooling off, the pores in the meat start to close taking juice with them and capturing it in the meat, thus juicy and tender...3) I dont want to take the chance of Over-smokeing the meat...:thumbs:

[UpTop]

Doesn't foiling effect the bark? Does it make the meat mushy? I myself love the bark/burnt ends and is why I cut the fat cap off of butts to get more bark. I'm fairly new and haven't yet tried a brisket or chuck roll yet, but will as soon as it warms up a bit.

[Buckeye]

Why don't ya jus ax tha meat when or if it stops takin' on smoke? That wood settle it. DUH!!! :roflmaoha0:
Since there's no definitive answer....why not jus go with tha preeveeous answers an end this....cuz all yer gunna git iz more of tha same answers....nuthin new.
Boss?.....Can I? Huh? Can I?.....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Texana]

Why don't ya jus ax tha meat when or if it stops takin' on smoke? That wood settle it. DUH!!! :roflmaoha0:
Since there's no definitive answer....why not jus go with tha preeveeous answers an end this....cuz all yer gunna git iz more of tha same answers....nuthin new.
Boss?.....Can I? Huh? Can I?.....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

No ... not yet .... :redneckno:

UpTop has questions about bark .. I will let someone else field that .. bark is a non issue for me .. and burnt ends .. dont even want to go there ...

So someone help out on the bark question ....

[UpTop]

Thanks, Texana, but I'll try and answer it for myself as I'm pretty sure having meat wrapped/sitting in juice would probably effect the texture of the bark in some way.

[High Cotton Tom]

The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round....:willynilly:

[Texana]

Thanks, Texana, but I'll try and answer it for myself as I'm pretty sure having meat wrapped/sitting in juice would probably effect the texture of the bark in some way.

Buckeye ...

UpTop is good for now ... so close it down if you so desire before HCT gets to thinking he should say more :)

[RuiNT BBQ]

As Texana pointed out, you find out what works best for you, your guest's, your pit, the seasonings and wood used and stick (no pun intended) with that. Tweak a little here and there, but don't just abandon it when the wind changes direction. You can chase your tail for a long time and get nowhere but dizzy....

Redneck made some good points about the foiling. Personally, I foil after a certain amount of time, not internal temp of the meat. I have found that with the wood I use (mainly hickory) and the temps I cook at (250-275) it works best for me if I foil the brisket at the 4 1/2-5 hour mark no matter where the meat temp is. In fact, I don't even check that anymore when I wrap them up. I usually gauge my smoke time on how well I've been able to manage my fire and how the smoke has been. If it's not burning well, I may wrap them earlier than 4 hours just to prevent them from being "oversmoked".

I have cut many briskets open and cut parts out of slices just to see what the flavor is like where. Usually you can't taste smoke or very little season deep down in the meat since it just can't seem penetrate there. Where your taste buds fool you is because you take a bite of a cross section of a slice and the flavors are spread across it from the knife and also mix in your mouth, so you get what I think is a "balanced" flavor profile from the bite. I also think that the meat will re-absorb some of the juice that surrounds it in the foil and pull some flavor back into the meat to depen the flavor somewhat. This juice has the smoke and season flavors in it, but also has the fat in it. This fat to me is not really wanted since it can congeal when cooling and add that back on/in the meat. I know there is already a large amount of fat in brisket, but once it's been rendered out by cooking, I don't really like it back in there. Again, just my opinion and taste.

I cook briskets this way whether at a comp or at home. It's just what I've learned works for me.

I cook butts pretty much the same way. Wrap after time, not temp. You will still have the bark on the outside. Granted it's not hard and crusty, but personally I don't really care for the "hard crust". I like the flavor and to be able to easily bite through it which is what you end up with when you wrap them up. The only time I have had stuff come out mushy is when I wasn't paying attention (read too much beer.....) and overcooked it. It's still good, just make chopped sandwhiches out of it instead of slicing it........

[Buckeye]

[B]Doesn't foiling effect the bark? Does it make the meat mushy?[B] I myself love the bark/burnt ends and is why I cut the fat cap off of butts to get more bark. I'm fairly new and haven't yet tried a brisket or chuck roll yet, but will as soon as it warms up a bit.

Yep

Yep.....it can if ya leeve it in tha foil too long.

[PhotoKirk]

Doesn't foiling effect the bark? Does it make the meat mushy? I myself love the bark/burnt ends and is why I cut the fat cap off of butts to get more bark. I'm fairly new and haven't yet tried a brisket or chuck roll yet, but will as soon as it warms up a bit.

Foiling does make the bark a little softer. You can firm it up again by taking the meat out of the foil and hitting it with some higher temperatures. I've seen a weedburner used to firm up bark, be creative.

[Buckeye]

Thanks, Texana, but I'll try and answer it for myself as I'm pretty sure having meat wrapped/sitting in juice would probably effect the texture of the bark in some way.

UP.....yer rite....leevin' tha meat ta sit in it's own jooces iz gunna affect tha bark. Not so much if it's sit'n fat side down, but since you stated that you trim tha fat cap offa yer butts for added bark, then you will have that side of tha meat's texture affected.

[Buckeye]

Foiling does make the bark a little softer. You can firm it up again by taking the meat out of the foil and hitting it with some higher temperatures. I've seen a weedburner used to firm up bark, be creative.

Good point PK. But I wuz thinkin more on tha lines of thro'n it back on tha pit naked like one duz when implamint'n tha 3-2-1 method with ribs.:roflmaoha0:

[Woodman]

Try this simple test. Put a sheet of white paper in the smoker at the beginning of your cook. Take it out after an hour. See how it is yellow/brown? That is smoke flavor. Put another sheet in at the end of your cook. Take it out after an hour, see how it is yellow/brown? That is smoke flavor. Try it with bread and eat both pieces if you think I am wrong. They will taste smokey. Next step. Cook a brisket to a temp of 140 degrees in your oven. Then take it out and finish in your smoker. See how it tastes smokey, but has no smoke ring? Case closed. I ate at a place in Shelby NC called Alton Bridge's BBQ once. I watched the pitmaster outside for awhile, then went out to talk with him. They put their meat in the smoker (gas assist) at midnite and ran automatically on gas until 5 am, before they came in and started using wood. The BBQ was very tasty, but had no smoke ring. I spea the truth. Woodman

[redneck cooker]

The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round....:willynilly:

I've never agreed with you more!!!!:roflmaoha0::stars:

[Zilla]

Zilla on smoke absorption:

It is my opinion that any meat will continue to absorb a smoky flavor as long as there is moisture in the cell structure of the meat to allow for the transfer of that smoke flavor down into the meat. A piece of meat would have to be very nearly petrified before it was unable to absorb smoke flavor.

[Zilla]

Zilla on chicken in the cooler:

It is my opinion that it is very important to keep chicken at the proper cold storage temperature in a cooler on ice. This includes keeping it in the cooler during any marinating or brining processes. It may part of some cookers stratigym to not turn in a chicken entry at all. It just depends.....:shrug:

[Zilla]

Zilla on the use of aluminum foil whilst cooking BBQ.

It is my opinion that aluminum foil stops unwanted color development on the exterior of the brisket thus increasing appearance scores, as well as helping the cooking process along to help meet the schedule of your cook.

[Zilla]

Zilla on Bark:

It is my opinion that one should always give a women the bark test before he takes her home. Especially after he has tippled a tasty beverage or five. Or perhaps imbibed some flavorsome smoke.......BBQ smoke I mean. I fellow can't be too careful.

[totally smoked]

Thanks guy's..I know.. I was one of the culprits..didn't mean any harm or disrespect. I haven't been here a year yet and I'm already cookin better I think than Famous Dave's.( A chain up here..)Sure..I've ruined a few cooks..But thats what its all about. Thanks fellas
ts

[HoosierTrooper]

You have nothing to apologize about.

[Ed Embry]

Zilla on Bark:

It is my opinion that one should always give a women the bark test before he takes her home. Especially after he has tippled a tasty beverage or five. Or perhaps imbibed some flavorsome smoke.......BBQ smoke I mean. I fellow can't be too careful.

Zilla, you're on a roll!!

http://usera.ImageCave.com/edembry/at-first-i-was-like-but-then-i-lold.jpg

[Mac]

Zilla on Bark:

Especially after he has tippled...

Well I thought I had heard all there was to hear about ways to drink an alcoholic beverage but "TIPPLED" beats them all!

Good one big ZILLA!

[sly2kusa]

Texana and Buckeye - thanks for creating this thread. It has been a good addition to the one we recently ended.

I too have wondered about wrapping and firming up the bark, but the idea of a loglighter to firm it up is a new one one me - baha! BBQ Flambe!

:D

[Buckeye]

Texana and Buckeye - thanks for creating this thread. It has been a good addition to the one we recently ended.

I too have wondered about wrapping and firming up the bark, but the idea of a loglighter to firm it up is a new one one me - baha! BBQ Flambe!

:D

It's obveeous you don't noe PhotoKirk. :roflmaoha0:
Hiz middle name iz FirePower.:D

[bigwheel]

Well I tried to post a message on this topic but it wound up lost in cyberspace along with a bunch of others...so at least it won't be lonesome. Perhaps it was because the message contained a link to a website which splained the process so I will leave out the link and see whut happens. I was trying to convey some info on a process called the Mailliard Effect which I do believe has relevance to the topic at hand. Might try plugging the phrase into Google and see if you don't get a few hits.

bigwheel

[smoken don]

Good post bigwheel.Lots of great info on the Mailliard Effect.Maybe to much
info on Mailliard Reaction.Head hurts,must get beer .Still good info. Thanks.

[totally smoked]

Thanks jeff...good info :thumbs: I thought my missin posts found the other sock porthole :)

[sly2kusa]

It's obveeous you don't noe PhotoKirk. :roflmaoha0:
Hiz middle name iz FirePower.:D

Hims is duh firepowers? Isa tought hims just duh photo man and you was duh bestest ones fer duh fire! I hears ya throws duh alkie on duh pits and explodeded everwuns at duh Rodeo!

:D

[High Cotton Tom]

Hims is duh firepowers? Isa tought hims just duh photo man and you was duh bestest ones fer duh fire! I hears ya throws duh alkie on duh pits and explodeded everwuns at duh Rodeo!

:D

Translation please? :shrug:....anyone?....hello?....anyone?....:stars:

[smoken don]

Been on Amazon. Lookin for a sly to english dictionary.No luck yet.:shrug:

[smokerdude65]

It all makes sense. How can Sly be from St. Louis AND Minnesota????..:roflmaoha0: We may have to throw in some Texas "slang" to keep up.

[Buckeye]

This one's run a good race.......time ta put it down. Okie dokie?